No Podcast This Week

TimSorry about this guys, but the timing of things just didn’t work out. We’ll try to make it up to you though with a post later today and maybe other content later in the week. Thanks for understanding!

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31 Comments

  1. Swimming_Bird says:

    Aw man, what else is supposed to keep me entertained while I slice up cheese to melt on rice cakes?!

    But I understand…

    Take it easy guys, don’t worry about us if your normal lives get too insane.

  2. MetaRidleyR27 says:

    Well darn. 🙁 But it’s fine that you aren’t able to have one this week.

  3. Tacos says:

    That’s a shame. Well enjoy the time off. Maybe get a 360 review up on the site.

  4. Dominator_101 says:

    Awww… I was looking forward to it… Now you speak LIES in your last podcast… The next one better be twice as good.

    But seriously, I understand. You guys have lives too… Well, maybe…

  5. Poo… I put down Fire Emblem to listen to the Podcast… at least I found this cool online radio site through a pop-up of all things… And I thought pop-ups never had anything to offer…

  6. roadjcat says:

    Well, I’m on vacation…I was going to ignore my family and listen to it, but guess I have to be social now. Darn. XD Well, it worked out relatively well for me because I didn’t bring my 2P Start! notebook with me and I was going to have to use post-its again, but now I don’t have to. I have to take care that I don’t go into 2P Start! withdrawals though. Look forward to whatever the extra stuff is coming.

  7. ultimateDK says:

    If it’s because of the ‘newest addition’ to 2PStart, then you guys take your time 😉 New members of the family should come ahead of webcomic updates.

    If it’s not the baby, then you guys got some ‘splainings to do XD

  8. Dominator_101 says:

    If it’s because of the ‘newest addition’ to 2PStart, then you guys take your time New members of the family should come ahead of webcomic updates.
    If it’s not the baby, then you guys got some ’splainings to do XD

    I would think that Tim would’ve mentioned that…

  9. A. apology accepted

    B. another post and some mysterious “other content”, eh?

    C. my personal suggestion for a Black Doom Award for this week?

    this: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/14/new-super-mario-bros-wii-future-titles-will-play-themselves/

  10. Betta splenden says:

    Completly fine, but why did Ray’s Twitter account have to tell me this efore you guys did?

  11. BadnikHunter says:

    C. my personal suggestion for a Black Doom Award for this week?

    this: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/14/new-super-mario-bros-wii-future-titles-will-play-themselves/

    That’s just plain horrible. That pretty much turns a video game into just a video. Someone on there said that it was a blessing because it allowed Nintendo to add harder parts so the gamers looking for a challenge would have one and could ignore the feature, but its just the fact that they added this in the first place that makes it completely stupid. If we see this in Galaxy 2 then I will officially hate Nintendo for trying to appeal to the casual gamer to the extent of leaving behind those who followed them from the NES or SNES years.

  12. BadnikHunter says:

    That article made me not get mad at you guys but be REALLY mad at Nintendo. Though I understand lack of podcast. Time to track down Miamoto and make him change this, along with making a Zelda timeline.

  13. MetaRidleyR27 says:

    this: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/14/new-super-mario-bros-wii-future-titles-will-play-themselves/

    Hahaha! Wow… I can’t say that I’m angry about this announcement, just amused beyond belief. I’d heard of this a while ago, and I was wondering when it’d finally show up officially.

    Now if Nintendo implemented this correctly, I could see it being a good idea. The biggest issue is if this “demo mode” just shows you how to beat the level, or if it literally does play the level for you. What would be even better would be if the player had to meet a requirement, collecting X amount of coins for example, in order to view how to beat the level. Chances are Nintendo isn’t going to do anything like this, and that just makes it a bad idea. As for Nintendo making levels harder because of this, once again it’s possible, but unlikely.

  14. CKcheeseboy says:

    I think everybody’s overreacting about that whole thing. I mean, if you don’t like it, don’t use it. Should Nintendo not have included level 1 computers in Brawl because they’re too easy? Should Professor Layton take out Hint Coins because if you can’t figure it out, too bad, you should just look it up? I don’t recall people getting up-in-arms when Guitar Hero made a mode where you can just strum and pass the song. And I guess games that include cheat codes where you can skip to the last level are “completely stupid” and “abandon hard-core gamers”. Easy modes are nothing new, so if you don’t like a feature that makes a game easier, don’t use it. I know it’s the cool thing on teh internetz to hate on almost anything Nintendo does these days, but really, I don’t see why this is such a huge deal.

    Also, Obilink, what if you physically can’t beat it instead of not knowing how? Looking up a guide isn’t going to all of a sudden give you more skills.

    And also, we don’t know how this is going to be implemented. Maybe you can only use it X number of times per game, or you can’t use it on bosses, or something to that effect. All we have to go on is that patent that popped up a few months back. At least wait and see how bad it is before complaining.

  15. BadnikHunter says:

    I think everybody’s overreacting about that whole thing. I mean, if you don’t like it, don’t use it. Should Nintendo not have included level 1 computers in Brawl because they’re too easy? Should Professor Layton take out Hint Coins because if you can’t figure it out, too bad, you should just look it up? I don’t recall people getting up-in-arms when Guitar Hero made a mode where you can just strum and pass the song. And I guess games that include cheat codes where you can skip to the last level are “completely stupid” and “abandon hard-core gamers”. Easy modes are nothing new, so if you don’t like a feature that makes a game easier, don’t use it. I know it’s the cool thing on teh internetz to hate on almost anything Nintendo does these days, but really, I don’t see why this is such a huge deal.

    Atleast you’re still PLAYING the game. The level 1 CPU players were to practice for the new comers to the game. Never played Professor Layton, but I take it the Hint Coins are HINTS, not “We’re going to complete this puzzle for you” Coins. As for the Guitar Hero one, I hadn’t heard of it and that IS pretty bad so I’ll give you that.

    This feature isn’t making the game easier, its the game playing itself.

    Games with cheat codes don’t tell you these codes. They don’t give you these features, unless you somehow figure them out yourself, you’re going to have to go on the internet and look these up, then input the code.

    Imagine Sonic Team making a Sonic game 2d with 3d graphics (Basically what everyone has been asking for), but allowing you to let the game play itself at the hardest parts. That takes the challenge away. You could say you could just not use it, but its the simple fact that they added it to try to appeal to the “Casual Gamers”

  16. Maybe you can only use it X number of times per game, or you can’t use it on bosses, or something to that effect. All we have to go on is that patent that popped up a few months back. At least wait and see how bad it is before complaining.

    But life’s no fun without wildly rampant and incredulous speculation!

    But yes, you’re right – we don’t know how it’s going to be implemented. It’s an early Nintendo concept we’re talking about so naturally we only know the gist of it. Nevertheless, people are (for the most part) human beings and try to make sense out of things they don’t understand. And I for one don’t understand this concept right now. It seems pointless, trivial, and a waste of programming; and now it’s Nintendo’s turn to explain why that’s not the case.

  17. vincecult says:

    in punchout wii if you lost 100 times in single player you got a cheat to be invincible. maybe itll be like that. fail x number of times and have the option to skip that particular part.

  18. DrOswald says:

    I think that the “game plays itself” mechanic is a good thing. I will certainly never use it, but believe it or not some people don’t want a challenge from video games. Should we then exclude them from playing high quality games? If Nintendo has found a way to let these people play these games without ruining the experience for me, I say it is a good thing.

    I know a girl who likes RPG’s but doesn’t like the boss battles because it is to hard. Because she doesn’t want to do it herself, and she probably isn’t good enough to do it if she wanted to, she gets someone else, like me, to beat it for her. Sometimes it may take a week or more for her to find someone who can come beat the boss for her. With this mechanic in place, she would be able to play through the game without assistance. Is that bad? Was it bad for her to ask for help in the first place? They are essentially the same thing. She is watching the game being played either way.

    This mechanic could really help casual gamers to get into the heavier games that we enjoy, leading to heavier support from developers for those types of titles. This could be a very good thing for us.

    Also, I would like to ask a question to the group at large: Is it bad for a game to attempt to appeal to casual gamers if this attempt costs nothing to core gamers?

  19. CKcheeseboy says:

    Atleast you’re still PLAYING the game. The level 1 CPU players were to practice for the new comers to the game. Never played Professor Layton, but I take it the Hint Coins are HINTS, not “We’re going to complete this puzzle for you” Coins. As for the Guitar Hero one, I hadn’t heard of it and that IS pretty bad so I’ll give you that.
    This feature isn’t making the game easier, its the game playing itself.
    Games with cheat codes don’t tell you these codes. They don’t give you these features, unless you somehow figure them out yourself, you’re going to have to go on the internet and look these up, then input the code.
    Imagine Sonic Team making a Sonic game 2d with 3d graphics (Basically what everyone has been asking for), but allowing you to let the game play itself at the hardest parts. That takes the challenge away. You could say you could just not use it, but its the simple fact that they added it to try to appeal to the “Casual Gamers”

    For the cheat codes, I don’t see how having to look them up makes any difference. It’s still a feature that programmers put into the game which enables you to make the game easier. More importantly, it’s still an option. Just like you don’t have to type in the cheat codes, you don’t have to use Demo Play.

    As far as the Sonic game idea, sure it takes the challenge away, but like you said, don’t use it. I’m not going to complain about a feature that’s not meant for me if it means somebody else can enjoy themselves. Does the fact that your grandmom or a 3 year old can see the end of the game make it any less satisfying when YOU beat the challenging parts? It certainly wouldn’t bother me. Really, by saying this feature should not exist, you’re in a way saying that other people don’t deserve the enjoyment you get out of games if they aren’t good enough to play them, and that just seems selfish to me. In fact, I can use myself with your own example. I’m not a huge fan of Sonic games, partially because I like being able to explore areas at my leisure instead of blazing through and hoping I don’t miss some nook or cranny, but in part because my reaction times aren’t that great. I don’t really enjoy when I’m playing and all of a sudden spikes pop up or something and I have like half a second to get out of the way and I can’t react in time. Something like this could let me watch the level, then I would be more prepared for stuff like that. Are you saying that since you are good at Sonic games, there shouldn’t be an option to accomodate people of my skill level because YOU don’t want that feature?

    As another example, imagine they remade OoT, often picked as the best game of all time, with the only change being the addition of Demo Play. Does the game all of a sudden suck now?

    Also, I thought of this regarding an earlier point: Obilink mentioned one way to get through if you were stuck was to watch a video on YouTube. OK, so why can’t you do that with this? Save, turn on Demo Play, watch the game do it for you, then reload the save and do it yourself. It saves the time of having to search for a video of the part you’re stuck at. Why is it all of a sudden bad when it’s actually in the game itself?

    The one point I will concede is if it ends up taking up so much disc space that they say “We would’ve put more features in, but Demo Play took up the room, so they aren’t there.” That would be a problem, but since we have no idea if that will be an issue or not it’s not something to complain about yet.

    PS FYI, the Guitar Hero thing I mentioned is Beginner mode, where instead of notes, bars come towards you and you just have to strum and hit the bar at the right time; you can hit whatever buttons you want. Also, HOLY CRAP that’s a long post. I really started to ramble there a bit, sorry.

  20. BadnikHunter says:

    All this talk about the game playing itself thing distracted us from the real problem, NO PODCAST! LET’S YELL AT RAY AND TIM!! Just kidding 😀

  21. CKcheeseboy says:

    @DrOswald’s question: From my point of view, that seems to be the opinion regarding Demo Play, since it fits exactly what you described (assuming the disc space argument is out of the question). I don’t really think so, because like I mentioned in my above uber-long rant, it seems selfish to deny somebody else the same enjoyment I get from a game just because they aren’t as skilled as me. Plus, like you mentioned, this could bring people deeper into games than they would have otherwise gotten. Some people could be like “video games are to hard for me, so I won’t play anything but Wii Sports”, but with this, they could play the parts the are good enough for, and as they do, they will slowly become better and be able to use Demo Play less and less.

    I also think some people have the mindset that video gamers are an elite group and they don’t want grandmoms to be able to join that group because of features like this, and I think that viewpoint is a little too prideful. Games are entertainment, not some exclusive club where only the best of the best can get in.

  22. ultimateDK says:

    I will certainly never use it, but believe it or not some people don’t want a challenge from video games. Should we then exclude them from playing high quality games?…With this mechanic in place, she would be able to play through the game without assistance. Is that bad? Was it bad for her to ask for help in the first place? They are essentially the same thing. She is watching the game being played either way.

    I wholeheartedly agree that this could be a good thing. I hope it is. More people playing good games = More people realizing how many crappy games there are = More people clamoring for better games.

    Unfortunately, I think that this looks good only on paper, and not in practice. Honestly, how many casual gamers are there that want to finish 50+ hour long RPG’s? Most of them want to play simple games like Wii Sports where essentially you jump into the game and can jump back out just as fast without getting totally immersed in the game.

    Is it bad for a game to attempt to appeal to casual gamers if this attempt costs nothing to core gamers?

    Not at all! Is it likely? I’m no expert, but I’d predict a no on that.

    That pretty much turns a video game into just a video.

    I’ve actually heard certain people ask for that very same thing
    *cough Star Wars fans who stink at games cough*

    On that note, I wouldn’t mind a tutorial application built into certain games like platformers…if there is a certain obstacle you can’t figure out, let the game show you how to do it, but the put you right back at the beginning of the obstacle, forcing you to actually perform the action. That might be a bit better I think.

  23. Kvb says:

    I’ve recently played Rhythm Heaven. It’s a pretty tough game. And I’ve actually gotten stuck on a minigame or two. After 3 failures, the game offered me a chance to simply mark the minigame as cleared because it felt I was doing so bloody horrible. And I am grateful for that. Getting stuck at one point in a game and being forced to repeat the same motions over and over until you get it right is not fun. And that is what games are supposed to provide us. They are a source of amusement.

    I know that overcoming a game’s tougher challenges can be great, but for linear games like Mario and Rhythm Heaven, the old system doesn’t work. I know a couple of casual players who got stuck on one level of a game. Do you know how they dealt with that? I had to beat it for them. That’s basically what Nintendo is offering with NSMB Wii, except built-in.
    Or even worse: Back in the day, I got stuck on some games too. And I didn’t know anyone else who played that game. How did I deal with that problem? I quit playing.
    I gave up on the entire experience that game could have potentially offered me because of one difficult part. I couldn’t train myself to become better, because I was forced to repeat the same section of the game. It was mind-numbingly boring. If the game had allowed me to skip it, I could probably have trained and become better in the later stages. I could’ve gone back and beat the section I got stuck on easily.
    Kids might have to never suffer my fate because of this system. And you guys frown upon that. But for that, I frown upon you.

    I do want to see Nintendo penalise the use of the feature, though. Professor Layton’s Hint Coins come to mind, or Rhythm Heaven’s “Try 3 times before you get to skip.”
    I think Rhythm Heaven’s technique would be best suited for this system. I’d also like to see the game mark stages that have been cleared using this help feature. With some kind of icon that goes away after the level gets cleared normally.

  24. Narnian says:

    *grabs torches and pitchforks*

  25. *grabs torches and pitchforks*

    Oh my…

    *runs for the hills*

  26. D3vin says:

    I don’t post anything on the last comic for this? Oh well, Hopefully the next one is better.

  27. DrOswald says:

    I meant my question to be more of an open ended question. Demo Play certainly fills that criteria, but I imagine that there are other possible solutions to this problem. Games have been including an easy mode for a very long time. I think that easy mode falls nicely into this category. I have seen many complaints that Nintendo is catering to the casual gamer at the expense of the core gamer. This is true. But when I see what can only be an attempt to appeal to casual gamers without costing the core gamer anything (ie, demo play) I still see people complain about how Nintendo has abandoned the core gamer. I don’t think that people are thinking this through, they are just throwing mud as a gut reaction, and that bothers me. My question is meant to point out that not everything that is meant to draw in casual gamers is bad for core gamers. We are going to see a lot of this behavior over the next few years, and not just from the big N. We had better get used to it.

  28. BadnikHunter says:

    Atleast you’re still PLAYING the game. The level 1 CPU players were to practice for the new comers to the game. Never played Professor Layton, but I take it the Hint Coins are HINTS, not “We’re going to complete this puzzle for you” Coins. As for the Guitar Hero one, I hadn’t heard of it and that IS pretty bad so I’ll give you that.
    This feature isn’t making the game easier, its the game playing itself.
    Games with cheat codes don’t tell you these codes. They don’t give you these features, unless you somehow figure them out yourself, you’re going to have to go on the internet and look these up, then input the code.
    Imagine Sonic Team making a Sonic game 2d with 3d graphics (Basically what everyone has been asking for), but allowing you to let the game play itself at the hardest parts. That takes the challenge away. You could say you could just not use it, but its the simple fact that they added it to try to appeal to the “Casual Gamers”

    For the cheat codes, I don’t see how having to look them up makes any difference. It’s still a feature that programmers put into the game which enables you to make the game easier. More importantly, it’s still an option. Just like you don’t have to type in the cheat codes, you don’t have to use Demo Play.
    As far as the Sonic game idea, sure it takes the challenge away, but like you said, don’t use it. I’m not going to complain about a feature that’s not meant for me if it means somebody else can enjoy themselves. Does the fact that your grandmom or a 3 year old can see the end of the game make it any less satisfying when YOU beat the challenging parts? It certainly wouldn’t bother me. Really, by saying this feature should not exist, you’re in a way saying that other people don’t deserve the enjoyment you get out of games if they aren’t good enough to play them, and that just seems selfish to me. In fact, I can use myself with your own example. I’m not a huge fan of Sonic games, partially because I like being able to explore areas at my leisure instead of blazing through and hoping I don’t miss some nook or cranny, but in part because my reaction times aren’t that great. I don’t really enjoy when I’m playing and all of a sudden spikes pop up or something and I have like half a second to get out of the way and I can’t react in time. Something like this could let me watch the level, then I would be more prepared for stuff like that. Are you saying that since you are good at Sonic games, there shouldn’t be an option to accomodate people of my skill level because YOU don’t want that feature?
    As another example, imagine they remade OoT, often picked as the best game of all time, with the only change being the addition of Demo Play. Does the game all of a sudden suck now?
    Also, I thought of this regarding an earlier point: Obilink mentioned one way to get through if you were stuck was to watch a video on YouTube. OK, so why can’t you do that with this? Save, turn on Demo Play, watch the game do it for you, then reload the save and do it yourself. It saves the time of having to search for a video of the part you’re stuck at. Why is it all of a sudden bad when it’s actually in the game itself?
    The one point I will concede is if it ends up taking up so much disc space that they say “We would’ve put more features in, but Demo Play took up the room, so they aren’t there.” That would be a problem, but since we have no idea if that will be an issue or not it’s not something to complain about yet.
    PS FYI, the Guitar Hero thing I mentioned is Beginner mode, where instead of notes, bars come towards you and you just have to strum and hit the bar at the right time; you can hit whatever buttons you want. Also, HOLY CRAP that’s a long post. I really started to ramble there a bit, sorry.

    Wow, for a guy who doesnt like long comments, Im making long ones. Maybe its just my love for a good debate.

    You were talking about saying that everyone shold be able to enjoy games, which I guess I agree with, which is contradicting to what i said about hating with a pealing to the Casual Gamer. The problem is that the answer to allowing all people to play games isnt allowing to skip whole parts, the answer is making and easier mode. I’ll be honest, I suck at a lot of games. I look on GameFAQs if I need help on a part. But I still like the challenge and if I do go to look up how to do it I would still want to complete the level, so if another part similar comes up I wont have to look it up again. Now the saving then seeing the demo play then loading the save would make the feature better. But it shouldnt take over playing the section in my opinion. I dont know if im the only one who thinks this way, but what make games good are the challenges. Here’s another thing, maybe the problem is the fact taht in the 3D Mario games, theres free roaming which means that sometimes you can go to the harder levels first. Level progression is another thing that makes games good, because then by going from easy to hard you know what to do. I dont even know if that last sentence made sense, but hey, what im basically trying to say is that you should still play it, not the game playing it. Ignore the spelling mistakes, I’m too lazy to go back and fix them. Just try to find out the words

    Oh yeah, and I got an internal server error

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